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	<title>Comments for Apperceptual</title>
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	<description>Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:58:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Meaning, Mapping, Panalogy, and Netflix by jabowery</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/meaning-mapping-panalogy-and-netflix/#comment-7896</link>
		<dc:creator>jabowery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=333#comment-7896</guid>
		<description>The mixed metaphor may be a virtue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mixed metaphor may be a virtue.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lakoff and Gentner by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/lakoff-and-gentner/#comment-7895</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=375#comment-7895</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Quick thought: have you considered the relationship between assigning logical form to a natural language sentence, and analogy?&lt;/i&gt;

A previous post discusses the relation between &lt;a href=&quot;http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/01/26/analogy-and-logic/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Analogy and Logic&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/analog.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sowa and Majumdar&lt;/a&gt; have some insightful things to say about this. I discuss how analogy might be used for semantic role labeling in &lt;a href=&quot;http://jair.org/papers/paper2693.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Latent Relation Mapping Engine&lt;/a&gt;. Lakoff and Núñez talk about metaphor and logic in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Where Mathematics Comes From&lt;/a&gt;. However, I believe this is only scratching the surface of your question; there&#039;s a lot of research that remains to be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Quick thought: have you considered the relationship between assigning logical form to a natural language sentence, and analogy?</i></p>
<p>A previous post discusses the relation between <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/01/26/analogy-and-logic/" rel="nofollow">Analogy and Logic</a>. <a href="http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/analog.htm" rel="nofollow">Sowa and Majumdar</a> have some insightful things to say about this. I discuss how analogy might be used for semantic role labeling in <a href="http://jair.org/papers/paper2693.html" rel="nofollow">The Latent Relation Mapping Engine</a>. Lakoff and Núñez talk about metaphor and logic in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From" rel="nofollow">Where Mathematics Comes From</a>. However, I believe this is only scratching the surface of your question; there&#8217;s a lot of research that remains to be done.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lakoff and Gentner by Andy</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/lakoff-and-gentner/#comment-7894</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=375#comment-7894</guid>
		<description>Quick thought: have you considered the relationship between assigning logical form to a natural language sentence, and analogy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick thought: have you considered the relationship between assigning logical form to a natural language sentence, and analogy?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Criticisms of Lakoff&#8217;s Theory of Metaphor by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/criticisms-of-lakoffs-theory-of-metaphor/#comment-7893</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=350#comment-7893</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;More follow up:&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/embodiment-and-metaphor/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Embodiment and Metaphor&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>More follow up:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/embodiment-and-metaphor/" rel="nofollow">Embodiment and Metaphor</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Lakoff and Gentner by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/lakoff-and-gentner/#comment-7892</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=375#comment-7892</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Update:&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/embodiment-and-metaphor/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Embodiment and Metaphor&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Update:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/embodiment-and-metaphor/" rel="nofollow">Embodiment and Metaphor</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Reasoning by mariana</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/reasoning/#comment-7890</link>
		<dc:creator>mariana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=392#comment-7890</guid>
		<description>I get it, thanks a lot peter for the answer, here is a nice quote regarding this subject:

&quot;If all the assertions which mathematics puts forward can be derived from one another by formal logic, mathematics cannot amount to anything more than an immense tautology. Logical inference can teach us nothing essentially new, and if everything is to proceed from the principle of identity, everything must be reducible to it. But can we really allow that these theorems which fill so many books serve no other purpose than to say in a roundabout fashion ‘A=A’?&quot; - Pointcare</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get it, thanks a lot peter for the answer, here is a nice quote regarding this subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;If all the assertions which mathematics puts forward can be derived from one another by formal logic, mathematics cannot amount to anything more than an immense tautology. Logical inference can teach us nothing essentially new, and if everything is to proceed from the principle of identity, everything must be reducible to it. But can we really allow that these theorems which fill so many books serve no other purpose than to say in a roundabout fashion ‘A=A’?&#8221; &#8211; Pointcare</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reasoning by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/reasoning/#comment-7888</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=392#comment-7888</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When you say that the problem with all this kinds of logic lies in the premises, isn’t it related to the famous Goedel theorem?&lt;/i&gt;

Here&#039;s what I mean. Consider the following classical example of deductive reasoning:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Premise 1: All men are mortal.
Premise 2: Socrates is a man.
Conclusion: Socrates is mortal.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Slightly more formally:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Premise 1: For all x, if Human(x), then Mortal(x).
Premise 2: Human(Socrates).
Conclusion: Mortal(Socrates).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If the premises here are true, then the conclusion is certainly true. But how do we know that all men are mortal? Where did this knowledge come from? Premise 1 is a much stronger statement than the conclusion. Doesn&#039;t that mean that Premise 1 is more dubious than the conclusion? Perhaps there are other premises from which we can derive Premise 1, but then where do these other premises come from? Ultimately, our foundational premises must come from some sort of non-deductive reasoning (induction, abduction, analogy, or something else), or maybe non-reasoning. This argument shows that the truth-preserving guarantee that we have for deductive reasoning (if the premises are true, then the conclusions are true) is of quite limited value.

Here&#039;s another way of saying the same thing. Science is full of mathematical models, and we know that these models are mathematically true, but are they accurate descriptions of the real world? A typical scientific model has the general form, &quot;If you have situation X and you intervene by doing Y, then the result will be situation Z.&quot; This may be deductively correct, in the sense that X and Y necessarily imply Z, but it&#039;s no use to us in the real world unless we know that X and Y are really true. That is, deductive reasoning has no practical value unless we assume that the premises are true, but we have no way of knowing for sure whether the premises are true.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/incremental-doubt/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Incremental Doubt&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When you say that the problem with all this kinds of logic lies in the premises, isn’t it related to the famous Goedel theorem?</i></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I mean. Consider the following classical example of deductive reasoning:</p>
<blockquote><p>Premise 1: All men are mortal.<br />
Premise 2: Socrates is a man.<br />
Conclusion: Socrates is mortal.</p></blockquote>
<p>Slightly more formally:</p>
<blockquote><p>Premise 1: For all x, if Human(x), then Mortal(x).<br />
Premise 2: Human(Socrates).<br />
Conclusion: Mortal(Socrates).</p></blockquote>
<p>If the premises here are true, then the conclusion is certainly true. But how do we know that all men are mortal? Where did this knowledge come from? Premise 1 is a much stronger statement than the conclusion. Doesn&#8217;t that mean that Premise 1 is more dubious than the conclusion? Perhaps there are other premises from which we can derive Premise 1, but then where do these other premises come from? Ultimately, our foundational premises must come from some sort of non-deductive reasoning (induction, abduction, analogy, or something else), or maybe non-reasoning. This argument shows that the truth-preserving guarantee that we have for deductive reasoning (if the premises are true, then the conclusions are true) is of quite limited value.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another way of saying the same thing. Science is full of mathematical models, and we know that these models are mathematically true, but are they accurate descriptions of the real world? A typical scientific model has the general form, &#8220;If you have situation X and you intervene by doing Y, then the result will be situation Z.&#8221; This may be deductively correct, in the sense that X and Y necessarily imply Z, but it&#8217;s no use to us in the real world unless we know that X and Y are really true. That is, deductive reasoning has no practical value unless we assume that the premises are true, but we have no way of knowing for sure whether the premises are true.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/incremental-doubt/" rel="nofollow">Incremental Doubt</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reasoning by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/reasoning/#comment-7887</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=392#comment-7887</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Maybe: reasoning can be seen as way of looking for explanations.&lt;/i&gt;

This is called &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abductive_reasoning&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;abductive reasoning&lt;/a&gt;, which is often concisely defined as &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Inference-Explanation-International-Library-Philosophy/dp/0415242029/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inference to the best explanation&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Maybe: reasoning can be seen as way of looking for explanations.</i></p>
<p>This is called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abductive_reasoning" rel="nofollow">abductive reasoning</a>, which is often concisely defined as &#8220;<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Inference-Explanation-International-Library-Philosophy/dp/0415242029/" rel="nofollow">inference to the best explanation</a>.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Criticisms of Lakoff&#8217;s Theory of Metaphor by Peter Turney</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/criticisms-of-lakoffs-theory-of-metaphor/#comment-7886</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Turney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=350#comment-7886</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Follow up:&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/lakoff-and-gentner/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lakoff and Gentner&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Follow up:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/lakoff-and-gentner/" rel="nofollow">Lakoff and Gentner</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Reasoning by mariana</title>
		<link>http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/reasoning/#comment-7885</link>
		<dc:creator>mariana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/?p=392#comment-7885</guid>
		<description>Maybe: reasoning can be seen as way of looking for explanations.
It can be seen as an algorithm, which starts from what its known now, and trough a series of steps (which can be done using inference rules, or other kinds of actions that change the actual knowledge stage), and ends once it&#039;s knowledges arrives to a point where it can explain what it was meant to. 
Better or worst heuristics can be aplied in this search, this will change the amount of time that the process takes to finish, the efficency of it.
When you say that the problem with all this kinds of logic lies in the premises, isn&#039;t it related to the famous Goedel theorem? Don t they point to the arbitrary premises on which all systems have to be based on.

I liked the idea of looking at the different logics from the evolutionary perspective, I think it is pretty analogous to the evolution of language, 
maybe you can draw similar trees ilustrating them evolving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe: reasoning can be seen as way of looking for explanations.<br />
It can be seen as an algorithm, which starts from what its known now, and trough a series of steps (which can be done using inference rules, or other kinds of actions that change the actual knowledge stage), and ends once it&#8217;s knowledges arrives to a point where it can explain what it was meant to.<br />
Better or worst heuristics can be aplied in this search, this will change the amount of time that the process takes to finish, the efficency of it.<br />
When you say that the problem with all this kinds of logic lies in the premises, isn&#8217;t it related to the famous Goedel theorem? Don t they point to the arbitrary premises on which all systems have to be based on.</p>
<p>I liked the idea of looking at the different logics from the evolutionary perspective, I think it is pretty analogous to the evolution of language,<br />
maybe you can draw similar trees ilustrating them evolving.</p>
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